Russia Russia Russia

[Nouseforaname]

22 hours ago, devnull said:

 

 

Trump doesn't need to cede anything to Putin.  Putin already has a decent chunk of Ukraine

 

All Trump has to do is turn off the DC gravy train and withdraw the US support personnel who we're supposed to pretend aren't really there

Aside from the rhetoric and clickbait headlines, how much has Ukraine actually received ? 

[Nouseforaname]

6 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Clavin said:

 

Just give Russia the Baltics and Caucasian states, too.

The reality is that even le pen and meloni who are supposed to be against the establishment fear an aggressive Russia.  

[Fansince88]

2 hours ago, Crap Throwing Clavin said:

 

Computer game, probably.  I've never seen a formation of dissimilar aircraft like that at an airshow before.

Actually I watched one last month in Dover. Not this many of course but very dissimilar. Combined with jumpers.

That said, I think you are right. 

Edited June 17 by Fansince88

[Deranged Rhino]

4 hours ago, Nouseforaname said:

Should the Palestinians have their own state after October 7th?

 

That's different for a number of reasons - but it's the 4,380 nuclear tipped reasons that make this an apples to Feraris comparison.

 

4 hours ago, Crap Throwing Clavin said:

 

Just give Russia the Baltics and Caucasian states, too.

 

See the above - which brings me all the way back to my initial misgivings about this whole situation. There was never any scenario under which the United States or NATO was going to stop Putin taking whatever he wanted in Ukraine unless they intervened directly. But, that was never a realistic option because Russia has the world's largest nuclear arsenal. The West knows it, and so does Russia.

 

We (meaning the US from a foreign policy perspective) can't spend the past 20+ years waging wars of aggression for our self interests, masked as wars of deterrence, in multiple sovereign nations then act horrified when another nuclear power decides to do it too. One of the biggest casualties of the perma-war complex, and Neocon/Neoliberal foreign policy in general over these past few decades, is that it has eroded our nation's moral high ground on any of these kinds of conflicts.

 

We're not the "shining city on the hill" anymore - and sure, maybe we never were, but the American people believed we were. And so did a big swath of the world. That kind of belief is necessary to give any population the stamina and fortitude required of a citizenry in times of actual war - not sandbox wars they only see clips of on the news or social media. Whether it's the result of general apathy, cynicism, fatigue, or decades of endless war with no obvious finish line - the past twenty something years have sapped the American public of the backbone required to actually go toe-to-toe with a nuclear armed foe. That's just reality. 

 

So while it sounds great to say "don't give Putin an inch!" - it's folly. And, sadly, not the reality we live in. 

 

That's not to say Putin or any foe can just take anything they want without any direct pushback from the US or NATO - there are certainly lines that can't be crossed and certainly hills very much worth dying on in order to keep. But Ukraine's not that hill. It's never been that hill for anyone in the US other than (many) public officials who have a vested financial interest in the country. I'm okay with getting a deal done that stops the slaughter of men and women - even if that deal gives Putin territory - because that's always been the obvious end result of this whole ordeal.

 

It's Big Boy Rules: Putin 100% will use nukes if he feels its needed to accomplish his goals in Ukraine, and the US/NATO 100% will not use nukes to accomplish its goals in Ukraine. And Putin knows it. Hell, everyone on the planet knows it. 

 

Because why would we?

 

So I say, let's cut the theater and stop the bloodshed. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Nouseforaname said:

The reality is that even le pen and meloni who are supposed to be against the establishment fear an aggressive Russia.  

 

I'm not an isolationist, nor am I against using military means to achieve certain geopolitical/national security goals. And despite the hype I'm not a fan of Putin. But when it comes to "aggression", Putin's numbers aren't close to the US/NATO's over the past two and a half decades. 

 

That means two things to me: 1: when push comes to shove, the US/NATO forces are much better prepared, trained, and seasoned to deal with Russia directly - we know this and Putin knows this, which means 2: the fearmongering about the Russian boogeyman is being pushed by the State for their own purposes, not our best interests. The more afraid we are of Russia, the easier it is for the security state to get us to surrender our rights and liberties here at home. That's how it always works - see 2016 to 2019 as just the most recent example.

Edited June 17 by Deranged Rhino

[Nanker]

 

 

[Nanker]

 

 

[Nouseforaname]

21 minutes ago, Nanker said:

 

 

Love community notes.  Almost like a twitter version of @Crap Throwing Clavin.

 

I refuse to call it x.

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

13 minutes ago, Nouseforaname said:

Love community notes.  Almost like a twitter version of @Crap Throwing Clavin.

 

I refuse to call it x.

 

That tweet is one particularly massive pile of bullshit, too.  I think the only correct statement in that tweet is that it does, in fact, show a submarine.  

[Deranged Rhino]

31 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Clavin said:

 

That tweet is one particularly massive pile of bullshit, too.  I think the only correct statement in that tweet is that it does, in fact, show a submarine.  

 

It's also the plot of the newest Jack Ryan book that came out two weeks ago - which I'm half way through. It's basically a weird story that's intentionally calling back to Hunt for Red October but with Jack's daughter playing his role, and instead of the sub captain wanting to defect, he wants to launch a new nuclear torpedo into Norfolk and have it render the port inhabitable for a century while taking out most of the Atlantic fleet. 

 

 

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

7 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

It's also the plot of the newest Jack Ryan book that came out two weeks ago - which I'm half way through. It's basically a weird story that's intentionally calling back to Hunt for Red October but with Jack's daughter playing his role, and instead of the sub captain wanting to defect, he wants to launch a new nuclear torpedo into Norfolk and have it render the port inhabitable for a century while taking out most of the Atlantic fleet. 

 

 

 

I've been trying to slog my way through the post-Clancy Jack Ryan series.  I'm on...I don't know, the one with the silver cover with a ship on it.  That's how memorable these books are. 

 

I wouldn't expect anyone to hold a candle to Clancy, who could write characters surprisingly deftly, and did his research very thoroughly (I caught very basic mistakes in post-Clancy book covered the OPM hacks - very basic mistakes that, as someone who worked at OPM during those, were excruciatingly painful.)

 

God, these books are shit.  Bad enough that I take a break from them to cleanse my literary palate by reading Sasquatch novellas. 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

56 minutes ago, Crap Throwing Clavin said:

 

I've been trying to slog my way through the post-Clancy Jack Ryan series.  I'm on...I don't know, the one with the silver cover with a ship on it.  That's how memorable these books are. 

 

I wouldn't expect anyone to hold a candle to Clancy, who could write characters surprisingly deftly, and did his research very thoroughly (I caught very basic mistakes in post-Clancy book covered the OPM hacks - very basic mistakes that, as someone who worked at OPM during those, were excruciatingly painful.)

 

God, these books are shit.  Bad enough that I take a break from them to cleanse my literary palate by reading Sasquatch novellas. 

 

 

 

Agreed - I've read them all though because I'm a sucker for the world/universe Clancy built. I stopped reading them as well researched or realistic in terms of the military/intelligence tech/jargon/culture and more as trashy "beach reading" type thrillers. I even read the Jack Jr series (which uses some of the same writers, but is more action focused narratives) which suffer from the same want. Completely agree that they all kind of blend together - so much so that I can't even tell you the name of my favorite one, I just know it's the one where Clark gets his hand beaten to a pulp with a hammer. And that was my favorite because I actually thought, for a good chunk of the book, that they were going to actually kill off Clark. I didn't want Clark to die, but I figured that would be their way of breaking free a little from Clancy's shadow after he passed. Either way, that one I remember being actually pretty fun. The rest -meh. 

 

The best thing I've gotten from them so far is it introduced me to Mark Greaney and his Gray Man series which is fantastic (imo) for another "beach reading" type action thriller with a dash of spy shit thrown in kind of series.

Edited June 17 by Deranged Rhino

[Fansince88]

2 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Agreed - I've read them all though because I'm a sucker for the world/universe Clancy built. I stopped reading them as well researched or realistic in terms of the military/intelligence tech/jargon/culture and more as trashy "beach reading" type thrillers. I even read the Jack Jr series (which uses some of the same writers, but is more action focused narratives) which suffer from the same want. Completely agree that they all kind of blend together - so much so that I can't even tell you the name of my favorite one, I just know it's the one where Clark gets his hand beaten to a pulp with a hammer. And that was my favorite because I actually thought, for a good chunk of the book, that they were going to actually kill off Clark. I didn't want Clark to die, but I figured that would be their way of breaking free a little from Clancy's shadow after he passed. Either way, that one I remember being actually pretty fun. The rest -meh. 

 

The best thing I've gotten from them so far is it introduced me to Mark Greaney and his Gray Man series which is fantastic (imo) for another "beach reading" type action thriller with a dash of spy shit thrown in kind of series.

Any helicopter chase scenes? 

[4merper4mer]

7 minutes ago, Fansince88 said:

Any helicopter chase scenes? 

I’m banking on a talking hamster crawling into the torpedo, hacking the operating system and nuking Canada.

[Nanker]

6 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

I’m banking on a talking hamster crawling into the torpedo, hacking the operating system and nuking Canada.

Wait till AI starts writing them. Thats sure to please even DR and CTC. 🤓

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

14 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Agreed - I've read them all though because I'm a sucker for the world/universe Clancy built. I stopped reading them as well researched or realistic in terms of the military/intelligence tech/jargon/culture and more as trashy "beach reading" type thrillers. I even read the Jack Jr series (which uses some of the same writers, but is more action focused narratives) which suffer from the same want. Completely agree that they all kind of blend together - so much so that I can't even tell you the name of my favorite one, I just know it's the one where Clark gets his hand beaten to a pulp with a hammer. And that was my favorite because I actually thought, for a good chunk of the book, that they were going to actually kill off Clark. I didn't want Clark to die, but I figured that would be their way of breaking free a little from Clancy's shadow after he passed. Either way, that one I remember being actually pretty fun. The rest -meh. 

 

The best thing I've gotten from them so far is it introduced me to Mark Greaney and his Gray Man series which is fantastic (imo) for another "beach reading" type action thriller with a dash of spy shit thrown in kind of series.

 

The one I'm in now has a subplot that's a nice call-back to Clark's "Kelly" days.  Power and Empire, it is.  Marc Cameron, much better written than Greaney's, in that Cameron seems to understand the world better, and knows how to introduce a character with something more than a curriculum vitae.  And at least he returned Jack Ryan to being a main character, and not just a bit player to drive the plot along.  Still pretty clumsy writing.

 

Eric Brown's Bigfoot Wars, though...now there's a literary gem.  

 

And Power and Empire sounds more like a Civ 6 DLC than a Clancy novel. 

Edited June 18 by Crap Throwing Clavin

[devnull]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/russia-says-three-killed-nearly-121137689.html

[Deranged Rhino]

 

[devnull]

11 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Just when you thought it was safe to go on the Internet 

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

 

New rule: anyone with a flag - of any type - in their Twitter handle is selling bullshit.

[Deranged Rhino]

Putin warned a retaliation was coming yesterday… this is still unconfirmed.