2024 Election Season

[IDBillzFan]

In the upside, it's nice to see Walz stepping up as the one honest broker for the left.

 

 

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

In the upside, it's nice to see Walz stepping up as the one honest broker for the left.

 

 

 

At least in that little snippet, in a very Obamaesque turn of phrase, he doesn't actually say his wife underwent IVF.  He says "thank God for IVF" and "we have 2 wonderful children."  He doesn't say he has the kids BECAUSE of IVF.  Maybe he does at other times, but not in this one.

 

It's also like a lot of his stolen valor claims (though clearly not all of them).  Have not heard him actually say HE was in Iraq or Afghanistan but that his unit/he supported the front line troops there.  Well, the bean counters stateside that keep track of funds for frontline units technically "support the front line troops" but clearly aren't there.

 

Much like a lot of the things 44 said when he was campaigning, where he'd set a stage and then make a comment that seemed to flow directly into what had already been said even though it didn't; which had the net effect of it appearing that 44 supported policies he clearly didn't; that's what it seems like Walz does and apparently quite often.

 

Perhaps there are other examples of him actually stating stuff that's false (like his claim that he retired at a rank he did not hold when he retired), but for the most part on things like this, would really prefer people didn't hammer him because his supporters will just say "he never said his wife had IVF, what else are YOU lying about" and it will be a credible retort to those only paying casual attention to the whole thing.  Hammer him on things he's actually said (and not just seemed to say) and on policies he's enacted and tried to enact as governor.  There's plenty there to go on the offensive with without setting his detractors up to be viewed as exaggerating what he's actually done and said.

 

Don't let his supporters play the discredit the messenger "gotcha game" because right about now it's the only arrow they've got left in their quiver.

[B-Man]

 

 

 

[IDBillzFan]

36 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

At least in that little snippet, in a very Obamaesque turn of phrase, he doesn't actually say his wife underwent IVF.  He says "thank God for IVF" and "we have 2 wonderful children."  He doesn't say he has the kids BECAUSE of IVF.  Maybe he does at other times, but not in this one.

 

It's also like a lot of his stolen valor claims (though clearly not all of them).  Have not heard him actually say HE was in Iraq or Afghanistan but that his unit/he supported the front line troops there.  Well, the bean counters stateside that keep track of funds for frontline units technically "support the front line troops" but clearly aren't there.

 

Much like a lot of the things 44 said when he was campaigning, where he'd set a stage and then make a comment that seemed to flow directly into what had already been said even though it didn't; which had the net effect of it appearing that 44 supported policies he clearly didn't; that's what it seems like Walz does and apparently quite often.

 

Perhaps there are other examples of him actually stating stuff that's false (like his claim that he retired at a rank he did not hold when he retired), but for the most part on things like this, would really prefer people didn't hammer him because his supporters will just say "he never said his wife had IVF, what else are YOU lying about" and it will be a credible retort to those only paying casual attention to the whole thing.  Hammer him on things he's actually said (and not just seemed to say) and on policies he's enacted and tried to enact as governor.  There's plenty there to go on the offensive with without setting his detractors up to be viewed as exaggerating what he's actually done and said.

 

Don't let his supporters play the discredit the messenger "gotcha game" because right about now it's the only arrow they've got left in their quiver.

 

Understood. The left -- and especially Obama-- are very good at tap-dancing between imply and infer.

 

But taking the high road doesn't win this game. If the president of the United States is going to stand on national TV and insist Trump told people to inject bleach into their veins, or the 'bloodbath' lie or 'very fine people' lie, then I'm of the mindset they need to be beaten with their own bat on occasion.

 

If you're going to walk that tightrope, you need to explain yourself, which often times makes you look more stupid than being a liar.

 

And Walz admitted he lied ('misspoke') about being in combat. So there's no tap-dancing there.

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

47 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

At least in that little snippet, in a very Obamaesque turn of phrase, he doesn't actually say his wife underwent IVF.  He says "thank God for IVF" and "we have 2 wonderful children."  He doesn't say he has the kids BECAUSE of IVF.  Maybe he does at other times, but not in this one.

 

It's also like a lot of his stolen valor claims (though clearly not all of them).  Have not heard him actually say HE was in Iraq or Afghanistan but that his unit/he supported the front line troops there.  Well, the bean counters stateside that keep track of funds for frontline units technically "support the front line troops" but clearly aren't there.

 

 

And I'm almost positive they get campaign medals, so have objective "I served in XXX" evidence, even though "served" is "I filled out paperwork for boot lace acquisitions."

[Taro T]

19 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Understood. The left -- and especially Obama-- are very good at tap-dancing between imply and infer.

 

But taking the high road doesn't win this game. If the president of the United States is going to stand on national TV and insist Trump told people to inject bleach into their veins, or the 'bloodbath' lie or 'very fine people' lie, then I'm of the mindset they need to be beaten with their own bat on occasion.

 

If you're going to walk that tightrope, you need to explain yourself, which often times makes you look more stupid than being a liar.

 

And Walz admitted he lied ('misspoke') about being in combat. So there's no tap-dancing there.

 

Not saying they need to fight under Marquise de Kingsbury rules.  But, when you KNOW the complicit enablers are just WAITING to be able to come back with "that's totally not what he said, you're lying about it; we can't trust a word YOU say and ALL your other criticisms of him must be false too" then WHY give them that ball on a T-ball stand?

 

This guy DOES enough stupid things that 30 years ago would have been considered completely unAmerican by all sides which he can't adequately defend IMHO and can score major points against him; that it is foolish to attack him for saying things that he only sort of said.

 

(And btw, they should be all over his Congressional Coin having the wrong rank on it and if they can catch him actually saying he WAS IN Afghanistan or IN combat then by all means fire away.  But when there are real things to challenge him on, DON'T get fixated on stuff that doesn't matter and that he didn't say anyhow.  Is it fair that there's a double standard?  No.  And somehow 45 manages to not care about it and it works for him.  But IMHO it doesn't work for his proxies.)

[Ann]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Not saying they need to fight under Marquise de Kingsbury rules.  But, when you KNOW the complicit enablers are just WAITING to be able to come back with "that's totally not what he said, you're lying about it; we can't trust a word YOU say and ALL your other criticisms of him must be false too" then WHY give them that ball on a T-ball stand?

 

This guy DOES enough stupid things that 30 years ago would have been considered completely unAmerican by all sides which he can't adequately defend IMHO and can score major points against him; that it is foolish to attack him for saying things that he only sort of said.

 

(And btw, they should be all over his Congressional Coin having the wrong rank on it and if they can catch him actually saying he WAS IN Afghanistan or IN combat then by all means fire away.  But when there are real things to challenge him on, DON'T get fixated on stuff that doesn't matter and that he didn't say anyhow.  Is it fair that there's a double standard?  No.  And somehow 45 manages to not care about it and it works for him.  But IMHO it doesn't work for his proxies.)

From CNN:

 

</snip>

 

“This one’s personal for me about IVF and reproductive care,” Walz told supporters at a rally in Glendale, Arizona, earlier this month. “When we wanted to have children, we went through years of fertility treatment.”

 

And in an MSNBC interview in July, he continued attacking Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance for his opposition to a bill that would have guaranteed access to IVF nationwide, while appearing to link the treatment to the birth of his two children.

 

“Thank God for IVF, my wife and I have two beautiful children,” he said.

 

</snip>

[Ann]

 

[Taro T]

9 minutes ago, Ann said:

From CNN:

 

</snip>

 

“This one’s personal for me about IVF and reproductive care,” Walz told supporters at a rally in Glendale, Arizona, earlier this month. “When we wanted to have children, we went through years of fertility treatment.”

 

And in an MSNBC interview in July, he continued attacking Republican vice presidential nominee JD Vance for his opposition to a bill that would have guaranteed access to IVF nationwide, while appearing to link the treatment to the birth of his two children.

 

“Thank God for IVF, my wife and I have two beautiful children,” he said.

 

</snip>

 

And, again, in neither of these does Walz say his wife underwent IVF.  He implies it in the 2nd quote, but it can also be viewed as he's using IVF as a proxy for all infertility treatments which his wife (and maybe he too?) did undergo.

 

Again, IMHO and can only give MOO, it is foolish to attack him for saying something that he implies when he has such a long record of items he actually CAN be attacked for.  And even in the area of fertility he can be challenged.  How can a man that wanted children and literally went through years of trying to finally be able to do so champion the sterilization of children?  Does he HONESTLY think NOT ONE of these children that he supports PERMANENTLY sterilizing in the name of gender activism won't want children of their own when they themselves actually grow into adulthood?  Who makes THEIR story/dream right?

[snafu]

20 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Not saying they need to fight under Marquise de Kingsbury rules.  But, when you KNOW the complicit enablers are just WAITING to be able to come back with "that's totally not what he said, you're lying about it; we can't trust a word YOU say and ALL your other criticisms of him must be false too" then WHY give them that ball on a T-ball stand?

 

This guy DOES enough stupid things that 30 years ago would have been considered completely unAmerican by all sides which he can't adequately defend IMHO and can score major points against him; that it is foolish to attack him for saying things that he only sort of said.

 

(And btw, they should be all over his Congressional Coin having the wrong rank on it and if they can catch him actually saying he WAS IN Afghanistan or IN combat then by all means fire away.  But when there are real things to challenge him on, DON'T get fixated on stuff that doesn't matter and that he didn't say anyhow.  Is it fair that there's a double standard?  No.  And somehow 45 manages to not care about it and it works for him.  But IMHO it doesn't work for his proxies.)

 

 

 

You're right.  Unfortunately, we're in an era where people get upset over (and try to get others to be upset over) every facet of every thing. It isn't limited to party affiliation.  It is exhausting.

 

 

 

 

[Ann]

23 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

And, again, in neither of these does Walz say his wife underwent IVF.  He implies it in the 2nd quote, but it can also be viewed as he's using IVF as a proxy for all infertility treatments which his wife (and maybe he too?) did undergo.

 

Again, IMHO and can only give MOO, it is foolish to attack him for saying something that he implies when he has such a long record of items he actually CAN be attacked for.  And even in the area of fertility he can be challenged.  How can a man that wanted children and literally went through years of trying to finally be able to do so champion the sterilization of children?  Does he HONESTLY think NOT ONE of these children that he supports PERMANENTLY sterilizing in the name of gender activism won't want children of their own when they themselves actually grow into adulthood?  Who makes THEIR story/dream right?

Well, if even CNN is saying he lied, he lied. Or, he's a dummy that does not  know the difference between infertility treatments. Or, he didn't care enough to understand the difference. Or, he didn't listen to his wife when they were going through that stressful time.

None of those reflect well upon him. 
 

[IDBillzFan]

39 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 

Not saying they need to fight under Marquise de Kingsbury rules.  But, when you KNOW the complicit enablers are just WAITING to be able to come back with "that's totally not what he said, you're lying about it; we can't trust a word YOU say and ALL your other criticisms of him must be false too" then WHY give them that ball on a T-ball stand?

 

 

Because it's a loser's game. The reason the left always wins and the right always loses is because the right somehow thinks it needs to take the high road on shit.

 

Take ballot harvesting. While it's legal in states like CA, the right never does it because they know it's a scam.

 

The result; CA has held a supermajority for so long, people still think the bullet train was a good investment.

 

You watched Biden literally say Trump told people to inject bleach to fight Covid during the first debate, and the moderators don't question it. Last night he lies again about 'bloodbaths' and 'fine people' lies, and no one pushes back.

 

Given how poorly taking the high road has been for the right, it's time to beat them up with their own bats.

 

It's well know that when it comes to politics, no one can trust a word ANYONE says, so we may as well start swinging or we'll watch Kamala and Walz start capping the price of cornflakes.

 

 

[Crap Throwing Clavin]

2 minutes ago, Ann said:

Well, if even CNN is saying he lied, he lied. Or, he's a dummy that does not  know the difference between infertility treatments. Or, he didn't care enough to understand the difference. Or, he didn't listen to his wife when they were going through that stressful time.

None of those reflect well upon him. 
 

 

They'll reflect worse on Republicans...

 

[Ann]

 

 

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

Because it's a loser's game. The reason the left always wins and the right always loses is because the right somehow thinks it needs to take the high road on shit.

 

Take ballot harvesting. While it's legal in states like CA, the right never does it because they know it's a scam.

 

The result; CA has held a supermajority for so long, people still think the bullet train was a good investment.

 

You watched Biden literally say Trump told people to inject bleach to fight Covid during the first debate, and the moderators don't question it. Last night he lies again about 'bloodbaths' and 'fine people' lies, and no one pushes back.

 

Given how poorly taking the high road has been for the right, it's time to beat them up with their own bats.

 

It's well know that when it comes to politics, no one can trust a word ANYONE says, so we may as well start swinging or we'll watch Kamala and Walz start capping the price of cornflakes.

 

 

 

Can't stand ballot harvesting and it SHOULD be illegal.  But where it is legal, the right should be using that tool too.  No dispute on that point.  

 

And, while 45 has a LOT of shortcomings, an ability to market himself is NOT one of them.  He should and does take every opportunity to self promote.  Which is not something the typical GOPer does.  They don't do it often, nor do they do it well.

 

But those are both separate to this issue.  We know the people getting paid to shill the DNC are just salivating to get to say correctly (apparently, and if he did actually say some of these things outright and not merely dance up to the line then sure fire away at him and the retort will be invalid) "Walz DID NOT say his wife had IVF.  He said he was thankful it is an option available to couples that are having problems conceiving.  If YOU'D lie about his saying something so personal to him, what else would YOU lie about you lying dog faced pony soldier."  45 knows how to just power right through that bit of criticism.  But most on the right don't and they end up not just stepping in it but wearing it like somebody threw a custard pie into their face and they lose the point they were trying to score.  Just avoid it.  

 

Or better yet, let the people that are ON Walz' side, like CNN, give him flack for it and then just sit back and watch it play out.  And when they finally get to asking your thoughts on it, say it's neither here nor there and hit him on some other issue.  (Ideally related, but if not, hit him on something else he deserves scorn over.)

 

Not sure how you, the person who loves to point out how "the biggest megaphone is still undefeated," can't see how this is playing right into their hands.  Don't hit him on something stupid that he DIDN'T ACTUALLY SAY.  Hit him on stuff he did, because they're going to ju jitsu it back on you when you go after stuff like that.  They can't do it on substantive attacks on him.  They try, but the defense rings hollow.

[Ann]

I know how he was elected (Mitch backed him), but how did Beshear get reelected?

 

 

 

[Ann]

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, Ann said:

 

 

 

And THIS is a comment that wasn't danced around.  The guy said it directly (unless he's going to come back with an even dumber statement claiming he meant he hopes Vance gets stuck in traffic) and he's rightfully getting hammered on it and now Harris has to either ignore it (which is her most likely course) and give 45 another talking point or actually try to reprimand one of her own.  42 pulled it off with the Sister Soulja moment.  Can't believe Harris can pull it off; she's simply not good with people.

[IDBillzFan]

Nope, @Taro T, it's pretty clear he's a liar. He specifically says his children were born from IVF.

 

 

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

Nope, @Taro T, it's pretty clear he's a liar. He specifically says his children were born from IVF.

 

 

 

Fine.  Thank you for providing that.  He DID actually outright say it.  But THAT needs to be the clip that accompanies it.  Not one where he dances around it.

 

So, fine, hammer away.  (Though still expect it's more effective if CNN does it and you and others hammer him on more insidious things he's said and done.)